Generally I would not ‘preach the gospel’ to an agnostic as the ‘first step’. First, relationship building is important, but even when a relationship is established, it doesn’t do a whole lot of good to preach something that they have to believe in our Bible to follow. We tell them according to our Bible, our beliefs, they are sinners, they failed their Creator, but He loves them so much that He sent His Son to die on their behalf. But if they don’t believe, the penalty for disbelief Is eternal pain. They must suffer for their past (is basically what we tell them). What if they don’t believe in Bible, we can’t exactly preach the Bible to them. We can’t tell them our Bible says they are sinner, so they now are. We can get to that point, but I would challenge you to start from a different narrative, one anyone can relate to, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist. We have all done bad things in our lives, we all are searching for belonging and acceptance (God created us that way).
God loves you. God tells you the exact opposite of above, there is no need to suffer because of your past, you are accepted and loved for who you are, because of who He is. God doesn’t look at you because of your past achievements or failures, there is no negative bias towards because of your failures, because of hurting or rejecting Him. Nor is He going to give you an ‘atta boy’ for the ‘good things’ you have done in the past. He has a plan for you, He has great potential for you, He wants to use you starting now, and forever on. He wants to use the unique gifts and blessings He gave you, and give you more, so you can magnify Him, and give glory to Him. That is the simple summary of the Bible, and what my doctrine is based on.
God doesn’t want perfection, He wants us to want perfection. If a man was perfect and he gave God glory for that perfection, that would be ok, that is basically what Jesus did. But if a man were to achieve perfection, and boasted about it, what good is this? Filthy rags. In order to have any purpose or eternal effect, all things point to the Creator of all. And if it doesn’t point to the Creator, it is useless, like a filthy rag, a filthy rag cannot be cleaned it is lacking the ability to achieve the purpose it was created for.
This is the problem with the WWJD mantra or claiming that we want to emulate or be like Jesus or live like Jesus lived. God doesn’t want us to achieve the status of perfection for perfections sake. We didn’t offend God by damaging a perfect status. We offended God by refusing His help to achieve perfection, or claiming we could achieve it of our own strength, or taking credit for anything. If you want to follow the WWJD or be a disciple of Jesus, then you should absolutely want perfection, but that is only to glorify God, so that God gets glory when it would be achieved, not just to achieve perfection.
I hear in songs of how “it should be my hands where Jesus’ were” or “Jesus did something that I could never do, and we praise Him for that”. My problem with the first statement is that is makes it seem as if all we have to do is to be crucified and all would be made well. I know most don’t believe that, but using verses like “The wages of sin is death” and saying that is why Jesus had to die, paints that picture. And the second statement, makes it seem like all we are trying to do is achieve something, like that is our goal in life, but we failed, good thing someone else did it for us. What if you could have achieve perfection, what if you never sinned? Are you then accepted by God? Do you impress Him? Did you ‘catch Him on His heels’? “AHA God, now you have to let me in, I achieved perfection and that is all you wanted of humans?” You want to shove it in His face? Call Him out on it? Again, I am sure that is not what people mean by such statements, but that is how that picture is painted. I have been around enough atheist to see how they rightly and logically see some of the ‘gospel’ arguments/apologetics, and why so many are turned off by well meaning phrases.
But we all know perfection of man is not only not possible, but it is also not the intent. Again, if God wanted a man to be perfect, He would help Him to achieve that status, like He did Jesus, or possibly Job in his early life of Noah or many of the others in the Bible who are quoted to have been ‘righteous’. But I don’t think for one second that any of those would have bragged about their righteous status, they knew is was only from God. God wants us to grow, and to want to achieve perfection. That is what remaining in Him means. It means trying your best to follow God’s commands. But not because He wants those commands followed, but because He wants us to live the most abundant life, and do to that, we must try our best to attain perfection with the only end goal is to praise Him for helping us to achieve that. Obviously one must know His commands to follow them, but one must also want to follow them, want the will of the Father. And as that is practiced more and more and focused on, it changes us Rom 5:3-5, that remaining in Him, following His commands, allowing His truths to transform us, slowly changes who we are, and then we are no longer giving to the poor to honor Him, but He is who we are. We give to the poor because we are love, we become the characteristics of God, achieve that perfection, and then we must always point to Him and thanks Him for transforming us into Him. If anyone was to claim it was their hard work, their hours of Bible reading, the countless hours of work helping others that transformed them, they lie and all of that was for not. Their transformation came from God, from them remaining in God, and God transforming them, for His glory, which also mutually beneficial is our lives are abundantly lived, because that is what we were created to do.
Anyone who can look at their lives, truly reflect on it, wonder what their purpose is, see why their were created and who their Creator was/is, if they truly seek Him, I believe they will find Him. They will find a God who loves them, who wants nothing but the best for them, and does not care 1 iota of a bit of anything they did in their past.
1 Cor 6:9 Unrighteous, thieves ect. Will not inherit the kingdom of God. Why? People currently practicing evil are not what God wants. God wants us to repent. The Ninevites were instructed that God would destroy them if they did not repent. They repented, and God did not destroy. God did not require a sacrifice to stave off His wrath nor did He need to spend His wrath on a substitution. He has no wrath on the repentant. The only wrath God has is on those who will not repent, the current sinners. And His wrath is not an angry God or even a loving God, it is not a God bound by some unwritten rule that God must be angry with sin and sin has a penalty that has to be followed, like God’s hands are tied and though He doesn’t want to carry out a penalty, He has to.
If you go to heaven, and you see Hitler their or Pharaoh or and ‘bad guy’ from the past, would you really accuse God of being unholy? Demand they must suffer for eternity for the past? I don’t know if those mentioned above any of all would be in heaven, but would that upset you? Were you upset when the adulterer didn’t’ get stoned? The law says adulterer’s must be stoned right? Isn’t God “bound” by some made up law above Him that sin must be punished? Jesus didn’t know about this ‘law’. Was Jesus unholy for not upholding this law?
In order to have a baby a man needs to lie with a woman right? Luke 1:37 say “For nothing will be impossible with God”. But scriptures say a Prov 11:21 says the wicked will not go unpunished right? Isn’t that saying sin must be punished? Surely a just God HAS to punish sin right, or He is not just? Heb 9:27 says “It is appointed unto men to die, but after this is the judgement”. So the ‘rule’ is that one can only be saved during their life on this earth, but once they die, they are screwed, nothing can save them. But remember, a woman can also not have a baby unless a man lie with them right? Did we forget that all things are possible with God?
Now it might be possible that in Hades (which is where every unbeliever is right now) might be void of God (though we don’t’ really know that for sure). And if a place was void of God, then no man could repent, as it is God that leads us all to repentance, if in a place void of God no repentance could occur. If this was the case, I would believe that on the final judgment day that anyone before God as He judges them who attempted to either say “screw you”, or to the one who attempted to justify themselves in front of God, would of course be cast into Gena/hell. And in hell the fire burns eternally, but I believe the person perishes, is consumed by fire and ceases to exist. This is an eternal punishment, no chance of coming back. You were given the gift of life to praise God and use His blessings for His glory and you failed to do so, so you lose that blessing and your life is done for eternity. This is a great tragedy. Someone who could have praised God and magnified His glory even more as He deserves it all, will no longer be able to do that.
But I think there is a possibility of people in Hades and even before the judgment seat, will come to a realization of who God is, and they can repent and be saved. I do believe God will instantly and like everyone human accept them into His loving arms. A penalty does not need to occur, God is not unjust for not punishing them.
I could be wrong, and there is plenty of scripture that says that in order to be saved, a human in the flesh must repent and call on Jesus to save them. But I also remember plenty of scripture that spoke of the Israelites as a ‘child of God’ and they were to be redeemed by God one day by the Messiah. It wasn’t until Jesus came and revealed the meaning ‘behind’ the scripture that all mankind was to be redeemed by God. Or when Peter had a vision saying “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean”. And all of a sudden one could see that it wasn’t just the Israelites that were allowed to be redeemed, but the gentiles too. What if it is also ‘hidden’ that the dead can be redeemed, not just the living?
God punished and killed many people in the OT, He wiped them from this earth. Why? It is a bit of speculation, but I think it could have been merciful of Him to take them, before the did anything worse that what they were already doing. These were hard, prideful people, maybe the fire of Hades would be enough to help soften and break them, bring them to repentance as God did for Nebuchadnezzar when He made him as an animal. This man of pride was humbled, and repented and gave praise to God. Would this man have been humbled if God never brought him from his throne? Would those from Sodom and Gomorrah have done worse things had they been allowed to live? I am sure they probably would have wrecked God’s world even more. I think God wiped many from this earth so that they would stop wrecking His creation and to stop them from becoming worse.
So did God change in the NT? No more wiping people from the earth? That was because Jesus came. Now God was instead transforming people from the inside, He no longer needed to wipe the wicked to prevent wickedness from spreading, rather to use that wicked and transform them to a holy person, displaying His power and love for all to see so they might be transformed by the same.
So if we can just repent and be saved, then why Jesus? First of all, that is what God wanted and chose to do. God wanted to send His perfect Son to die for us to show us the extent that He loved us, that He would withhold nothing from us. And if one wants God’s will and repents, and it is God’s will they confess to Jesus and allow His death to atone for their sins, that is clearly what one who wants God’s will will believe and do. Isiah was given a hot coal and his sins were forgiven. God is the only one offended when we sin and only He can forgive and it has the authority to set any conditions as to how to achieve forgiveness He wants. If He wanted to snap His finger or speak some words (as Jesus does do to forgive sins of the adulterer) He could. But God chose Jesus’ atoning death on the cross to achieve that, and that is how He wrote the entire OT and the customs of the Israelites to foreshadow what Jesus would ultimately do for us. Second, we didn’t think it was that simple. God’s people thought to be holy, one had to follow many rules abstaining from offending God and it was ones own strength, character and desire that holiness came from. Jesus greatly had to fix that and reveal the truth to that. That holiness is obtained from remaining in God, it comes from God and He allows us to display it for others to praise Him. God used the Spirit in Jesus to reveal the hidden truth to us and then gave us that Spirit to reveal more things to us and help us. But just as the sacrifices of the Israelites became an abomination to God, the act of calling on Jesus’ name is just as much of an abomination to God if one does not repent and want the will of God in their lives.
This is to speak on those who feel motivated to preach to others because of what they call love. That they don’t want them to spend eternity suffering in hell so they preach to them from the perspective of a fire blanket. I love others, but I also love God, and I want them to glorify God here while on earth and for eternity, I want to pull them out of the hell they are in now not knowing God. I really don’t see the benefit of a death bed conversion, like it is a last min save, or getting someone to say a few words hoping they believe it in hopes to prevent them from going to eternal hell, as if that is some change that happens when they die. How are they not in eternal hell now? The wages of sin is spiritual death, they have been dead for a long time, in hell for a long time, this isn’t just something that is going to happen when they physically die. Like you think you can trick one past God last min. God know when they are going to die, and there is probably a reason they are going to die, they need Him. If He can’t get their attention on earth, well maybe it would be better for some suffering in Hades to soften them and bring them to the light. Isn’t this what happens to gold? Isn’t it thrown into intense fire to burn off the impurities, so that one can have pure gold? Could not the fire of Hades soften a man and get him to finally give up and turn to God?
The Bible does say that every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. It doesn’t say this will come from only those in heaven. But if one was to call on the name of the LORD, they shall be saved right? If every tongue confesses He is LORD, they every tongue shall be saved. This is also why I believe in annihilation. If you do not exist, if you have been consumed, you no longer have the ability to confess or not. And those that haven’t don’t exist, and those that still exist will confess. Either that, or this is speaking of those in Hades who have been softened and will all confess, and be saved. There is no word for penalty in the Hebrew or Greek language used in the Bible. There is no such word that suffering has to happen because of acts committed. Whenever God commands those to be killed or kills someone it wasn’t because of the acts they committed in the past, it is because He knows their hearts and knows they want to still commit those same acts. But if there was such a rule or a word, we must remember nothing is impossible with God. In fact that very statement is made right after the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. They claim how a chasm is fixed and for man it is impossible to cross. Matt 19:26 Jesus says “With man, this is impossible, but with God all things are possible”. This is true even on earth though with the living. By mans efforts alone, we could not achieve salvation or admittance to the kingdom of heaven, or be seen as righteous to God. But with God, all things are possible, and God made this possible for man, by sending Jesus to save us, to grant us admittance, to make us righteous when we repent. I don’t see why this impossibility is seen as so ‘easy’ to overcome for God, but the possibility for someone to be saved from Hades is too impossible for God? So “impossible” that we even started to make up doctrine about how God must be holy, and can’t allow anyone to repent in Hades, or it would contradict His own holiness. This is almost like the poor Jews who were burdened with all the extra rules the Pharisees laid upon them. We shouldn’t be burdened by the souls of others, we cast our burdens on Him, for He cares for us. We trust His sovereignty. We simply do our best to show His love and light to others to glorify God and let Him take care of the souls.
I don’t have all the answers, and if you are looking to beat a technicality or to use my words above to not worry about saving anyone because they might have other chances. I would greatly question your salvation. Stop trying to follow rules and formulas. Do your best, love God and love others. Jesus even ‘sat around’ for 30 years. I am sure He followed God and remained in Him for that time and He grew in His body and the Spirit. But it wasn’t until God called Him to ministry that He began to minister. I am not speaking of a general command like the great commission, but God directly called Jesus around 30, Jesus even said that before then, it wasn’t His time. I don’t know how old Saul was when he became Paul. Just imagine what good Paul could have done if he started 30 years earlier, or Jesus right? What if He had began His mission at age 20, when considered an adult fit for war? God has plans for you, and in His perfect timing will let you know what they are if He was to call you. But for now, we wait, trust and remain in Him. Don’t think you are supposed to do the things now that you might end up doing at age 60 and look back and wish you could do those things now. Or wish if you were where you are now 10 years ago, you could have done such great things. God will get those things done (those things being His will) regardless of you, or your age, or your spiritual maturity. Stop trying to achieve what God has planned for you in chapter 40 in when your life’s story is only in chapter 28. Cast your burdens of what you think should/could be achieved on Him, trust in His sovereignty, and just remain in Him, ask Him to help you follow His commands, give Him the glory for where you are now, trust Him as to where you will be later.